Leading through change

Patrick Fox (PF): It feels a huge understatement to say we are in a moment of profound change and disruption that requires us to lead through complexity, not control it. As a CEO, and indeed a board chair of Heart of Glass, what do you think are the most pressing challenges?

Tracy Gentles (TG): For me, it’s not about trying to control the turbulence but learning to harness it. I think of turbulence as both destructive and creative – deeply unsettling, yes, but also the very conditions in which ways of working can take shape. Easier said than done of course.

At SICK!, we’ve reframed our whole model around what we’re calling Creative Resuscitation, which is about collapsing old forms of delivery, prototyping new ways to engage and reimagining our future structure. In 2026, instead of a month-long festival, we will stage a series of shorter waves of programming across the year.

PF: So you’re reframing the whole structure of the festival itself?

TG: Exactly. We are using the turbulence as a way to build a festival that is more flexible, more resilient and more deeply rooted in our communities. By reimagining the structure, we give ourselves and our audiences room to breathe, to reflect, to recover and to reconnect.

PF: That balance between care and adaptability really resonates – having a strong set of embedded values is essential. Our work exploring Permaculture Principles has also been a real anchor for us.

On regional power and fragmentation

PF: Moves toward devolution and greater regional power in decision making could empower more locally driven cultural planning. But without national coordination – particularly around equity, equality and diversity – there’s a risk of fragmentation. How are you experiencing these conversations on the ground?

TG: It doesn’t really matter whether coordination happens nationally, regionally or locally, if the approach is wrong, if the people most affected aren’t feeding in, then what results is not empowerment but painful disconnection. Manchester’s newly launched Always Everywhere cultural strategy is significant because, at least on paper, it aims to place communities and diverse voices at the centre of planning and decision-making.

This is also why organisations like Heart of Glass and the work we’re doing at SICK! feel so important. We can act as convenors, advocates and translators across power structures. We hold the trust of communities while also being able to engage with policymakers and funders.

PF: Definitely. Ten years as part of Arts Council England’s Creative People and Places programme has shown us just how powerful place-based work can be when it comes to engaging communities at a grassroots level. I would echo your thinking around partnership working too.

The newly established Liverpool City Region Culture Network is thriving, with more members joining to be part of a collective voice that carries real influence. We’ve also recently developed a network of ‘hinterland’ organisations working outside the city centre and across the city region, which is about strengthening place-based cultural engagement from the ground up.

On the condition of work

PF: Too many artists and arts workers are leaving the sector, burnt out, underpaid or unsupported. What do you think the central challenge is here?

TG: When we lose people, we don’t just lose individuals, we lose innovation, new ideas and the diversity the sector has spent years fighting to nurture. That’s when art becomes more expensive, more exclusive and less representative.

For me, it’s about shifting the infrastructure. At SICK! we’re trying to do that through making longer-term commitments to artists with proper pay, pastoral care and progression routes.

But this isn’t just about one organisation. Systemically, we have to stop treating exploitation as ‘the way things are’. If we don’t, we’ll keep losing people and, with them, the very future of the sector.

PF: And it’s deeply frustrating to see artists being left out of the conversation. We must listen to them. Without artists, there is no arts sector. Without their voices, we lose a vital force that challenges perceptions, reframes reality and helps shape more inclusive, progressive and resilient societies.

On evidence and impact

PF: As organisations working primarily in social and community contexts, how do you navigate the pressure to show tangible outcomes across an ever-increasing range of indicators – mental health, social cohesion and economic impact to name a few?

TG: It’s one of the hardest balancing acts. At SICK! We have developed an Ethical Framework and Model of Change precisely to keep us grounded in what matters most. It’s about centring social wellbeingas a key determinant of health. Some of our projects, like our social prescribing programme, demonstrate clear links between art and health.

But equally important are the spaces art opens up for people to gather, share and find joy. That act of coming together is itself health-giving. It’s about holding people as whole human beings, not as outcomes to be measured.

PF: In smaller organisations like ours, we often have the advantage of being deeply embedded in our communities, making it easier to build trust and create spaces where people from different backgrounds feel seen and welcomed. That intimacy allows for a unique kind of connection.

TG: Absolutely. I think we can support artists to pull out these threads, not to instrumentalise their creativity, but to show the complexity of what art does in the world. That’s where cross-sector thinking comes in.

By working in joined-up ways with health, social care and community partners, we can champion the full richness of creativity without reducing it to a single agenda. It’s about reframing. Not ‘art as a tool for social outcomes’ but ‘art as a human right’.

On shifting politics

PF: We recently did some shared training about the rise of the far right and the targeting of our communities. As we grapple with rhetoric and policy shifts linked to migration, gender identity and disability rights – to name a few – is this a new moment or another phase of the continued fight for social justice?

TG: What struck me most in that training was just how organised the far right are. It was both incredibly useful and deeply worrying, especially in relation to my life as a woman of colour, the descendant of immigrants. It feels far beyond the world I grew up in the 1980s and 1990s.

Recently I was working in the north of Finland where people spoke about a fear of climate refugees. It struck me how fears differ depending on where you are and the privilege you sit with –  until events outside of our control bring us closer to people currently being targeted. Empathy has to be our guide, recognising shared vulnerabilities and shared humanity.

The targeting of migrant, LGBTQ+ and disabled communities is profoundly troubling. While this moment feels acute, it is part of a longer, cyclical struggle for justice. What’s different now is the scale and speed of the backlash, amplified by digital platforms. The only way forward is action, finding ways to collaborate and do things together to create positive momentum, as well as learning how to engage in difficult conversations.

That means not shutting down when disappointment comes from unexpected people, but instead offering facts, examples and tangible routes for making voices heard, so we are not overwhelmed by hate. Solidarity and representation are never static, they demand active, ongoing defence.

On ‘staying with the trouble’

PF: Finally, what sustains you? As part of the next generation of leaders, how do you stay motivated and in the fight?

TG: At SICK! we try to hold space for communities under pressure as well as joy and creativity as acts of resistance. What sustains me most is community, the people I get to work alongside who show resilience and imagination in the toughest of circumstances.

I’m also sustained by the solidarity I see through our partnerships, knowing we’re part of a global community of practice facing similar challenges. On a personal level, I protect moments of stillness and joy, whether that’s walking, family or music. Caring for myself is what allows me to keep caring about others.

PF: Yeah, I would agree with all of that. Trying to keep as close to the work as possible is critical, which can be tricky with so many ‘administrative forces’ to be dealt with. But I do take the time to remind myself why I gravitated to this work in the first place. It’s that sense of enquiry, power of community and hope for the possible that inspires and nourishes.